The New New Business: Learning to be Relentless with Oliver Disney

Oliver Disney is chief growth officer at technology and creative company Collective. He has previously worked at McCann and 383 Group.

LBB> What was your first sale or new business win? 

Oliver> Alliance & Leicester, before Santander bought them.

I had started at McCann not long before, and I cold-called their head of comms (when clients were in the office more and picked up their desk phones) and started talking to her about direct marketing.

A few meetings in, it was apparent they had a more comprehensive brand-building opportunity for their current account and loan products. Next thing we were pitching, the whole agency was focused on this opportunity I had created. We went on to win, and the TV shoot was in South Africa - I sadly didn’t go there; I was focused on finding and winning the next pitch.

LBB> What was the best piece of advice you got early on?

Oliver> I had the benefit of working directly for Dean Lovett, CEO of McCann Central, for the first ten years of my career. It was tough, exciting, and relentless, but it was also an incredible proving ground for me. I was surrounded by great people, and he gave me complete backing and trust, which was hugely valuable. Those people believed in me, and I learned so much from observing and interacting with them.

A few nuggets that stick out in my mind are…

The answer is always “no” unless you ask.

Be relentless.

Always ask ‘What is it going to take to win your piece of business?’

LBB> And the worst?

Oliver> “Don’t bother trying to call the prospect again, if they are interested they will get back to us.”

We have to get over the fact that we are less than 5% of our clients' working lives when they dominate ours. Always take the initiative, and always pick up the phone, drop that email, like that LI post, it can change everything for you.

LBB> How has the business of ‘selling’ in the creative industry changed since you started?

Oliver> It has fractured; there are far more people selling far more shiny new things than ever before. AI is really helping, but you can’t ask ChatGPT for the motivation and relentlessness to go the extra mile to win business. You have to really cut through, focus on your value, on their problem, connect the two and hope your timing is impeccable. If it isn’t, keep going until it is. 

LBB> Can anyone be taught to sell or do new business or do you think it suits a certain kind of personality?

Oliver> I think anyone can technically do it, but you have to be comfortable with rejection, not knowing where the numbers to hit your target are going to come from, being relentless and focused, and consistently trying to find that edge. You also need the resilience to pick yourself up from that pitch loss, despite the weeks and months of effort you put into it, move on and do it all over again.

LBB> What are your thoughts about the process of pitching that the industry largely runs on?

Oliver> I was talking to a friend (a client) the other day, and her view is that pitching is great for them. Agencies really fight hard to win a piece of work, so you see their enthusiasm and high motivation when they begin the relationship. I get that perspective.

Pitching is expensive, and is a real rollercoaster for the agency - it is amazing when you win, but also gut-wrenching when you lose.

I have had pitch fees previously, which show a level of commitment and empathy from the client. 

When you compare it to the job interview process, it is very similar in the sense you are recruiting. You have multiple stages, you often get set a task to present against, or you have to prepare something in advance. 

As long as the thinking and work are judged in context, as an example of what can be done, not necessarily the answer - then it works. We have defined complete campaigns/retail concepts for clients in pitches, and they have said, “That’s great, let's run with that concept” and you only really get to charge for the delivery of all the thinking you have done. 

LBB> How do you go about tailoring your selling approach according to the kind of person or business you’re approaching?

Oliver> I always start by being a very decent, transparent, and reliable human being, regardless of who I am selling to. Different job roles have different objectives, so being mindful of those is important. The most powerful question in this situation is, “What are you looking for as an outcome, and how can we make sure we achieve it together?”

Recognising we are a thin sliver of their working day/week, and knowing our place is key - we deliver a lot of value to our clients, but clients have so much more to consider and think about than just the output we create together.

Also being respective of ‘no, not now’ is crucial. Hounding prospects with no respect for their time is a quick way to lose any chance you had of engaging with them. 

LBB> New business and sales can often mean hearing ‘no’ a lot and quite a bit of rejection - how do you keep motivated?

Oliver> It’s nothing personal, so don’t take it that way.  You learn more from the no’s than the yes’. They hurt, but they are a reality of the job. We put a lot of emotion into what we do in new business, it matters to us and we want to win…but the client wants to choose the right partner for them when they want to. They have every right to say ‘no’ to us, and we have to respect that.

LBB> The advertising and marketing industry often blurs the line between personal and professional friendships and relationships… does this make selling easier or more difficult and delicate?

Oliver> I met my wife at work, and have many friends from my first job at McCann still to this day - there seemed to be a generation of us that joined around the same time and we are still friends today along with several marriages and families that came out of it  - it was a fantastic time. Being in the office five days a week definitely helped this, but this was all pre-COVID.

I think being friends with people who are technically on your target list can be tricky, and you need to be objective - if you can strike that balance and be open about it, then you can progress, but if not, you have to ask yourself is your friendship worth it?

LBB> In your view what’s the key to closing a deal?

Oliver> There are so many factors, we are not in the business of selling widgets or SaaS subscriptions - we are in the business of selling ideas, concepts and creativity. Really knowing what the client is judging your proposal on is critical, especially budget. I always like to understand the personal and professional risk someone is taking to appoint you, recognise that and reduce it as much as possible. 

LBB> How important is cultural understanding when it comes to selling internationally? 

Oliver> I have worked in Europe, the Middle East and the US and there are definite differences. In The Middle East, in my experience, trust is very high on the agenda - if we built a trusting relationship, my clients would back us completely and we didn’t have to fight to get our ideas realised. In the US, it was much harder and clients were more demanding. In certain parts of Europe, there is a refreshing directness that we oftentimes avoid in the UK.

Pre-COVID we were much more likely to jump on a plane to visit clients (mainly day trips to European capitals, and an 18-hour trip to NY come to mind), which although it is time-consuming and expensive, you built better relationships. Now, so much is through Teams/Meet/Zoom, it removes that ability, but you get the meeting in quicker.

LBB> How is technology and new platforms (from platforms like Salesforce and Hubspot to video calls to social media) changing sales and new business?

Oliver> It makes logistics a lot easier, but often it is harder to build strong relationships. Video calling gives you a focus, but you don’t have the time for small talk and getting to know each other outside beyond the brief as much.

LinkedIn in a game-changer, but is it also becoming the professional Facebook and full of people telling you how to 10x this and that, and is spreading a certain professional toxicity that is hard to ignore.

LBB> There’s a lot of training for a lot of parts of the industry, but what’s your thoughts about the training and skills development when it comes to selling and new business?

Oliver> Training and growth is so important, but if you don’t have the drive in the first place it will only get you so far. 

My first task was to get meetings. I was given a deck on the business, some case studies, a list of people and a phone. It was hard, I messed up a lot, and it took me three months to get my first meeting - but I learnt a lot about my abilities, comfort zone and how people react in those three months. You can’t train that into someone in my opinion.

LBB> What’s your advice for anyone who’s not necessarily come up as a salesperson who’s now expected to sell or win new business as part of their role?

Oliver> Get into as many conversations and meetings as you can. You will mess up, accept it and learn from it. Watch how others do it, how they build narratives to conversations and in decks, connecting it to the prospects' business, and set yourself daily targets of activity.

Work your network, ask for referrals, ask lots of questions, be interested in other people's business and challenges, and ask how they solved them. Celebrate the small wins (a reply to an email, and an agreement to meet).