The New New Business: Educating Yourself on the Variables with Dan Mallerman

Before joining the world of production, Dan worked as a… deep breath…market trader, doorman, double glazing salesman, teaching assistant, security at an abortion clinic, further education teacher and hotel porter - he looks 44 because he is 44.

A love of writing, scripts, songs, music and poetry means that what you see ain’t what you get but then again, maybe he’s really not good at any of the above and what you see is what you get.

Dan joined Kode eight and a half years ago to start the commercial department with Jack and Alex, who he thinks, along with Elliott, Nathan and Matt, are some of the most admirable people he’s met, let alone worked with. 

He supports Tottenham because, if he were a Buddhist, he believes he must have been Genghis Khan in a previous life.

LBB> What was your first sale or new business win? (Was it a big or small job? How difficult or scary was it? What do you remember about how you felt? What lessons did you learn?)

Dan> My first ever sale - the first bell ringing moment - would have been back in New York for Safety First commercial - and, embarrassing as this is - I really can’t remember much about it at all given it happened during analogue times but I do remember desperately needing the money. The lesson learnt was that I could convince people, proper people, with money, to trust me. That was a confidence booster.

LBB> What was the best piece of advice you got early on?

Dan> Don’t take anything personally. I started doing sales work long before I was in the industry, where personality was limited to a scripted sales pitch on a call – rejection was commonplace but ultimately I was selling conference space in the telecoms industry. I hated the job (really, I hated it) but a thick skin was developed too.

LBB> And the worst?

Dan> Don’t take no for answer.

Never quite understood how that made sense. There is a line between being determined and being disrespectful.

LBB> How has the business of ‘selling’ in the creative industry changed since you started?

Dan> Talent development, understanding of the agency landscape, and the blurred lines that exist between production, agency, DTC, post…When I started in the industry there was no such thing as on-line content. Sales felt a little less cut-throat – or perhaps my memory has been compromised but it didn’t feel it.

The most significant change is the saturation in the industry. That is a saturation of talent, options and the infinite internet providing work which, and I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn here, doesn’t feel creatively satisfying but is omnipotent. 

LBB> Can anyone be taught to sell or do new business or do you think it suits a certain kind of personality?

Dan> I’d say that selling anything requires a certain characteristic – but if you’re selling something you believe in, then really I don’t feel like I’m selling in that cartoonish way that is characterised by a spiv on a car lot.

To be a good salesperson it takes educating yourself on so many variables. We need to have a detailed knowledge of our roster, which includes not only what work our directors have done but also what they want to do moving forward. We need to have an immaculate knowledge of which agencies have which accounts, remembering that lots of brands have multi-agency relationships.

Knowing who is at what agency – which is not so easy these days as the agency folk move a lot more than they ever used to.

So, sales begins and ends with what are we getting through the door but between those moments there’s a multitude of other things we have to do, so the type of person who does sales needs to wear a number of hats but equally so needs to be relentless day to day – which is to say there is no excuse to thumb twiddle – always something we can be doing.

LBB> What are your thoughts about the process of pitching that the industry largely runs on? (e.g. How can it be improved - or does it need done away with completely? Should businesses be paid to pitch? What are your thoughts about businesses completely refusing to engage in pitching? How can businesses perform well without ‘giving ideas away for free?)

Dan> No idea on how anyone can refuse to engage in pitching. We should definitely be paid to pitch. Pitching is, by and large, an intense time. So long as there is great communication between agency and ourselves then everything should be cushty. The moment communication breaks down problems can occur but that is true of literally any aspect of any job. 

I don’t have an answer as to no giving away ideas because the only answer is that the treatment, and those supplying that treatment, retain the IP on it…I have seen projects we’ve bid on end up on TV and seen far, far too many elements from our submission end up on someone else’s spot. It’s disappointing but I doubt we’re the only ones to have experienced it.

Not too sure why some agencies won’t reveal who is in the bidding process, think that should be open information. 

Again, and perhaps it’s boring; transparency and communication are integral.

LBB> How do you go about tailoring your selling approach according to the kind of person or business you’re approaching?

Dan> Ha - I aint’ telling you…just know who you’re talking to…

LBB> New business and sales can often mean hearing ‘no’ a lot and quite a bit of rejection - how do you keep motivated?

Dan> That is easy enough – I have a responsibility both in the office and at home to make sure that people know I carry on regardless. If it was me, on my own, the rejections might be a little tougher to accept over time but it’s not just me, it’s a team, so we win as a team and we lose as one.

LBB> The advertising and marketing industry often blurs the line between personal and professional friendships and relationships… does this make selling easier or more difficult and delicate?

Dan> I have very few people in the industry who I would say are personal friends than professional ones. There are a fair few who I would say are mates – and those people I don’t put any pressure on working together but I won’t hesitate to ask for any help from them in terms of intros, or their thoughts on talent we’re nurturing (especially nurturing compared to established talent)

LBB> In your view what’s the key to closing a deal?

Dan> Clients understand when they’re dealing with people who are sincere. They also appreciate that, in what has become trickier times, there is a desire to be collaborative, helpful, transparent. I’m always appreciative of being approached by clients to work together as it shows trust

LBB> How important is cultural understanding when it comes to selling internationally? (And if you have particular experience on this front, what advice do you have?)

Dan> Respecting how our clients work – be it how they communicate, their expectations of us as a provider or how the creative process and the production process work alongside one another is vital to retaining those clients. Working with Asian clients and US ones have similarities in some regard; the time dedicated to the client can be all encompassing but the dialogue between the two couldn’t be more different. Understanding that, and early in the process makes for a smoother sailing project. As for advice; the Asian market, in my experience, is almost entirely about the job, whereas, again, in my experience, the US is as much about the relationship built both as partners but also in regards to a friendship. Both have merits.

LBB> How is technology and new platforms (from platforms like Salesforce and Hubspot to video calls to social media) changing sales and new business?

Dan> The Zoom/Teams thing is here to stay but it isn’t my cup of tea – unless it’s talking to clients abroad, or in small groups. Having multi-people screenings with a series of black tiles on mute is dispiriting; there is no sense of how the work is being met, whether the person/people are even watching. On a smaller scale it has worked but there is no substitution for sitting in a room with someone.

Not to say I am some dinosaur - BikiniList for examples, is a great tool - I use it all the time. However it is far from faultless - nothing beats sitting opposite someone…and I still think LinkedIn remains the closest thing to fool proof.

LBB> There’s a lot of training for a lot of parts of the industry, but what’s your thoughts about the training and skills development when it comes to selling and new business?

Dan> As a former teacher – shut up, it’s true – the idea of education/training/skills development is so important that I’d say it’s vital anyone in this role (any role, anywhere) keeps on improving. The industry has scarcely evolved at such a rate so why wouldn’t we want evolve with it?

LBB> What’s your advice for anyone who’s not necessarily come up as a salesperson who’s now expected to sell or win new business as part of their role?

Dan> Knowing what you offer is key (but don’t feel like you have to know everything. Don’t blag answers. If you don’t know, you don’t know – but say you’ll find out…and then do so.

Be proactive. Rare as rocking horse shit that anything will just drop into your lap.

Rejection is inevitable – but don’t be afraid to ask if there was something you could have done differently which would have improved your chances of winning – especially at pitch phase.

Getting downhearted will happen but understand that the next opportunity is around the corner, use the feeling of disappointment in a positive way.

Don’t be a kiss arse but understand that a little ego massage isn’t a bad thing.

Know who the talent you represent want to be – that means appreciating where they are now but it’s our jobs to get them to where they want to be. It is unlikely to happen overnight but setting up a plan for each director is vital.

Be present as much as your domestic life will allow. There are lots of industry events happening, try and be a part of as much as you can (and not all require late nights or drinking).

Make sure your flies are done up, and you don’t have fragments of lunch or breakfast in your gnashers.

Finally, don’t feel like you have to get pissed. Advertising isn’t remotely as booze-centric as it was but that doesn’t mean people don’t like an Old Soho Congregation at The Blue Posts, and there is a pressure to ‘join in’ but more and more people understand that not everyone wants to wind up at the arse-end of the District Line at 2am.