The Most Important Part of Partnerships and Sales with Charlotte Grotenhuis
From her first job in music over 20 years ago, to her current role at MassiveMusic, music partnerships have been a common trend in Charlotte Grotenhuis’ career.
Working at the largest radio station in the Netherlands — Radio 538, taught her early on how the power of music can connect brands with their audiences. Working in different brand marketing roles at Diageo and GLS gave her the experience to not only use music as an activation mechanism, but to also dive into the strategic power of sonic branding and the effect on brand KPI’s.
All of this experience makes her a strong strategic partner for brands, connecting expertise across MassiveMusic and building solutions on the confluence of creativity, marketing communications and business strategies.
LBB> What was your first sale or new business win?
Charlotte> My first business win was at the radio station I worked for.
I was responsible for finding the right sponsor for an event and radio campaign called ‘The School Awards’. I remember I was very nervous going into the final negotiation, but my manager, although tough with me, had given me great training.
I was in the meeting and my manager was sitting next to me, silently coaching me through the conversation. I kept affirming the reasons why the sponsorship cost was valid but moreover, he taught me to emphasise the value of what we sold. I guess that’s something I’ve carried with me in everything I do.
In sales, you are only as successful as your client will be with your product or service and his success depends on the value it brings, not necessarily the cost of it.
LBB> What was the best piece of advice you got early on?
Charlotte> I think a really good piece of advice was understanding that it’s not always about being right, it’s also about being happy.
In agencies, you can get trapped into thinking that your solution is the only solution out there and although you will make sure that you have the best possible solution, from a client POV there are always multiple routes and considerations.
So when it comes to pitching, don’t fall into a discussion about being right and don’t present your idea as the sole salvation to a client’s challenges. If a client disagrees with you, it is sometimes better to agree with them — happy client, happy sales person.
So I guess a very important piece of advice, especially in my earlier days, was to occasionally stop and ask yourself the question: “Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?”
LBB> And the worst?
Charlotte> The worst advice I ever got was to just ‘suck it up’.
The creative industry is not always very considerate of your mental health and general well-being. Under the pressure of client delivery deadlines and striving for perfection, I think the worst advice to hear is to “just suck it up.”
At the end of the day we create fantastic pieces of work that make lives a little brighter, work that puts a smile on someone’s face, and even result in true emotional connections that have great impact on businesses and society. However, most of our clients don’t save lives or end world hunger, they sell products or services.
So be persistent, challenge yourself, push boundaries, work late hours when needed but then stop. Protect your boundaries and prioritise your well-being. Staying happy and healthy will make you better at what you do.
LBB> How has the business of ‘selling’ in the creative industry changed since you started?
Charlotte> I don’t think a lot has changed, to be honest. You still have the same roadmaps in place, only the tools to get there are different and perhaps there is more competition. However, sales at its core is still a cycle of ‘input + added value = output’.
Sales requires discipline to fill and manage your pipeline. There are more brands that require our services but there are also more brands today that have become less loyal to agencies and craft. They are under pressure to innovate, cut costs, and optimise output, which can be a threat to our industry. That’s why we need to challenge clients and think about new ways we can all benefit from technological developments, creating sustainable business models that mutually benefit both sides.
LBB> Can anyone be taught to sell or do new business or do you think it suits a certain kind of personality?
Charlotte> Interesting question!
First of all, practice practice practice. If Taylor Swift didn’t play a thousand notes a week, she wouldn’t be as good as she is. The same applies to sales. Practice is crucial to anything you want to master.
However, talent is the ultimate accelerating factor for success. If you have a talent for creating opportunities, being a good listener, connecting and understanding how different people communicate, then that will exponentially increase your output.
I come from a hospitality background and we are always complimented in the business world because we are trained to provide service. Funny enough, it turns out to be a rare thing. And, I guess that is one of the key components of being successful in sales — understand and enjoy the fact that you are serving a client.
So yes, I do think there are certain personality traits that make it easier to be effective in sales.
LBB> What are your thoughts about the process of pitching that the industry largely runs on?
Charlotte> I don’t think we’re going to be able to get rid of pitching. From a procurement buyer point of view, it is good to have an understanding of the industry standard, who performs within those standards and what fits your way of working best because at the end of the day, if there are too many discrepancies between the client expectation and the agency delivery, the project is just not going to fly and the collaboration will have negative consequences on both ends.
What I would like to see happen more is pitches starting off with ‘chemistry sessions’. I like them because people still do business with people and having the same values, energy and ways of thinking or working puts a solid foundation in place. Having a mutual understanding and level of equality in place is what makes a partnership work. After that, I feel that showing hints of your strategic or creative capability brings fairy dust. The amount of fairy dust could be eligible for a fee, I would argue.
Nonetheless, I also think pitching can have a really positive effect on your teams, if done correctly. There is something so exciting about diving into a pitch with your team. Time crunching, late night pizza sessions and bringing ideas to life. There is a magic in it and I’ve found that being part of pitch teams has forged great connections with my teammates, regardless if we won or lost.
It’s important to learn how to be the best partner within a team, building on each other’s skills, capabilities and creative ideas. That’s what creates really good teams and really good teams, do really good pitches – so that’s a full circle, I guess.
LBB> How do you go about tailoring your selling approach according to the kind of person or business you’re approaching?
Charlotte> Every meeting is worth good preparation. Depending on the size of the business, some have really good quarterly or annual reports that you can draw talking points from. Showing up with knowledge and interest about their business is always a good way to enter a conversation.
When it comes to the personality types I generally refer to Yung colour schematics or MBTI (Meyers Briggs Type Indication) and try to understand what communication style works best on the receiving end. For example, if you’re meeting someone from the procurement department, they tend to be quite analytic and straightforward, so coming in with conceptual and creative thought starters is not going to resonate. Instead, adapting your message and most importantly the types of questions you ask is very important.
LBB> New business and sales can often mean hearing ‘no’ a lot and quite a bit of rejection - how do you keep motivated?
Charlotte> Yes, you probably get a couple of ‘no’s and that is much like life itself right?!
You have to be resilient and remember that you didn’t have it before and you don’t have it now, so it wasn’t really a loss.
Having a streak of ‘no’s doesn’t build your confidence and it can actually be a sign that there’s something off with your proposition, your selection of potential clients or the influence you have on the decision makers. When I have a losing streak I tend to go back to my last win and see what made that win come through so I can draw some learning from that.
Also, discuss and rely on your team's creative and production rockstars to reaffirm that the work you deliver for clients is bad ass and that your service and product or proposition have real value. That will keep you motivated and the new win will inevitably come around the corner.
LBB> The advertising and marketing industry often blurs the line between personal and professional friendships and relationships… does this make selling easier or more difficult and delicate?
Charlotte> In my experience professional friendships can exist. In some cases, you’ll be working incredibly hard together, towards a common goal, which is bound to create connections.
I have engaged with many clients. I have had difficult discussions and hard calls. But I’ve also danced on tables and popped a few bottles and even now, 20 years later, I can still pick up the phone (yes, I am a millennial) to some of my very first clients and talk about my current proposition or where I’m at and how we could contribute to any of their challenges in present today.
I believe having a common goal automatically forges a relationship. So, I guess I think it makes it easier because, like friendship, if you have a respectful mutual relationship, there is trust and trust is a fundamental element for success.
LBB> In your view, what's the key to closing a deal?
Charlotte> There are multiple but an opportunity can only come to life if the timing is right.
It has happened more than once that everything about the deal made sense but the timing wasn’t right. And when the timing isn’t right you risk other priorities taking over — people leave, changes are made to organisations, personal preferences shift or organisations change direction all together.
In a more pragmatic way you can influence timely decisions by setting milestones, asking for confirmation and following up accordingly. Making sure your proposal stays top of mind and your ideas freshly ingrained will help build momentum and ensure the entire organisation gets behind the plan. So, don't be afraid to ask for confirmation.
LBB> How important is cultural understanding when it comes to selling internationally? (And if you have particular experience on this front, what advice do you have?)
Charlotte> I would advise anyone who is in an international role dealing with different cultures to read the book ‘The Culture Map’ by Erin Meyer because, as I said, the most important part of partnerships and sales is to get to a level of communication where you truly understand the needs of the person in front of you so you can cater to them effectively.
Understanding cultural differences will help you eliminate unnecessary roadblocks and therefore, increase your opportunity to win significantly.
LBB> How is technology and new platforms (from platforms like Salesforce and Hubspot to video calls to social media) changing sales and new business?
Charlotte> Tools should be in service to people, not the other way around. Done properly, it can help you save time, creating more space to have conversations. Having a good CRM (like Salesforce or HubSpot) and having the support to work with that CRM is vital because having a tool but not using it efficiently will cause discrepancies and stagnate the business as a whole.
On video calls, I would say they’ve taken away a part of the personal interaction, but they’ve also increased our time efficiency. And let’s be honest, not having enough time can be a reason for a client to not even start a project so balancing personal interaction with effective calls and saving time in travel and social chat can increase your possibilities.
In regards to social media, there is a world of opportunity but it is very personal, so I would advise against doing things on social for the sake of doing it. If you want to be a thought leader in a certain field, then by all means be that thought leader, but make sure you keep it real and authentic because, at the end of the day, Marketeers can smell a BS story from a mile away.
LBB> There’s a lot of training for a lot of parts of the industry, but what’s your thoughts about the training and skills development when it comes to selling and new business?
Charlotte> Really good question!
I’ve only had one formal training on consultative selling in my entire career. The rest was training on the job, which is very important, but I must say, having in depth knowledge on behavioural science is incredibly powerful. So, I think it’s underutilised and seeing the learnings come alive in meetings is fantastic.
I would recommend speaking up and asking for these kinds of training because there is always something to learn from it. Whether it’s improving your personal skill set or elevating your team’s performance as a whole, there’s always something to learn.
LBB> What’s your advice for anyone who’s not necessarily come up as a salesperson who’s now expected to sell or win new business as part of their role?
Charlotte> You can look at it from multiple angles but I do believe in a thing called ‘Ikigai’ — the Japanese belief that if you do what you are good at and it brings you joy and people are willing to pay you for it, that’s the sweet spot of finding what you are supposed to do in this life.
If sales and new business gives you that, then go for it and embrace the opportunity! However, if it brings a knot to your stomach and no sense of joy or accomplishment, then be honest with yourself and your team and build on other capabilities that you possess.
The key is that, if you are operating from your strengths, you’ll contribute the most to your team and the company’s success.
