Bossing It: The Value in Building Trust and Feeling Heard with Nicki Field and Charlie Sells
With a collective 25 years experience within the business, and more in the wider industry, the newly appointed joint MDs of creative collective TBM Group, Charlie Sells and Nicki Field, have navigated the group and its companies (Jelly and Think Artfully) through rebrands, diversification, and global expansion.
After founder Chris Page made the decision for TBM Group to become an employee owned business in 2023, Charlie and Nicki were appointed as joint MDs in a bold and adaptive move to meet a progressive, ever-changing industry.
LBB> What was your first experience of leadership?
Charlie> My first proper plunge into leadership was at uni, stepping up as a student representative. It was a real eye-opener and pretty thrilling to be the go-to person for students' concerns, championing changes that genuinely improved our course. It wasn't just about being in charge; it was about listening, understanding, and acting on behalf of others.
This experience gave me a solid foundation in leadership, showing me the importance of empathy, negotiation, and the significant impact of collective action. It was my first taste of how rewarding leading with purpose could be.
Nicki> How did I not know you did that Charlie? So did I. Although at Brighton, it was more about fundraising to showcase our work in London through organising parties - which obviously I loved. But more seriously, it was being surrounded by incredibly talented creative people that inspired me. It was realising I wasn’t able to produce creative output in the same way that spurred me to take on a supportive role. Knowing my talents didn’t lie in the creating itself, I started to look at how I could help and support those that could.
LBB> How did you figure out what kind of leader you wanted to be – or what kind of leader you didn’t want to be?
Charlie> I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly in workplace environments, some of which were shockingly poor by today's standards. Witnessing what not to do firsthand really drilled into me the kind of leader I aspired to be. It wasn't just about avoiding the negatives; it was about actively fostering a positive, respectful, and supportive environment. These experiences were crucial; they taught me the value of integrity and respect in leadership, shaping my approach to be as inclusive and supportive as possible.
Nicki> I’ve always had a nurturing side to my personality and that expressed itself in a professional way becoming an agent and supporting artists. So in managing a department with staff and a roster of artists I had to inspire a collective vision but also help drive and support the individuals within that.
For years I’ve worked with artists to help them realise their potential in their moments of doubt and inspiring that vision and faith in ability is translatable to the inner workings of a business and its people. I’ve learnt that I always want people to thrive - and feel that there’s space for them to grow into - and give them the tools they need to do this. Moving further into leadership and managing the business feels like a collective job of utilising all the things I’ve always done to some degree.
LBB> What experience or moment gave you your biggest lesson in leadership?
Charlie> The biggest lesson for me came when I realised that leadership isn't about having all the answers or insisting on your way. The moment I started valuing different perspectives and ideas, everything changed. This approach not only broadened my understanding but also empowered my team, creating a more collaborative and innovative environment. It was a pivotal moment that taught me the power of humility in leadership and the incredible results you can achieve when you truly listen and collaborate.
Nicki> One thing I’ve learnt over the years is active listening. There have definitely been occasions I’ve failed at this, but, recognising that what’s in-front of you and the words people say, can be very different to what they actually mean.
Untangling issues or problems often means having the patience to sit and listen whilst being curious along the way - which is a skill I’ve learnt from Chris over the years. Charlie has an absolute unparalleled ability to really get to the centre of an issue with apparent ease yet often there’s nothing easy about it - it’s being unafraid to have the tough conversations.
I think the lesson is you can never just assume what you think you know about an issue or challenge - you have to really dig in to get to the nub of it and remain as objective as possible to be able to solve it.
LBB> Did you know you always wanted to take on a leadership role? If so how did you work towards it and if not, when did you start realising that you had it in you?
Charlie> Reflecting on my early days, from setting up a little French tutoring gig to looking out for my sister, I've always gravitated towards roles where I could guide and influence others. These experiences, seemingly small at the time, planted the seeds of leadership within me. They nurtured a natural inclination to lead by example, teach, and inspire others. This early exposure to responsibility and guiding others laid the groundwork for my leadership journey, igniting a passion for leading with empathy and purpose.
Nicki> I’ve always been ambitious and certain events in my personal life have further ignited that in me. I’ve absolutely always had a drive for making an impact in the industry and the more exposure I’ve had over time to the inner workings of the business, the more I’ve enjoyed digging in. My ambition has always been about passion in my field and making a difference from my experience, which has somehow led me to where I am now.
LBB> When it comes to 'leadership' as a skill, how much do you think is a natural part of personality, how much can be taught and learned?
Charlie> While I believe there's an element of natural instinct to leadership, akin to a nurturing personality trait, the journey doesn't stop there. Leadership is very much a skill to be honed and developed over time. It's about being open to learning, adapting, and growing. My approach has always been to absorb as much as I can, from every success and setback, continuously evolving in my role. This blend of natural ability and committed learning is what shapes a truly effective leader.
Nicki> I believe you have to have an ability to see the bigger picture to be a leader - I’m a high context person when trying to understand an issue or a challenge because I always want to understand the bigger picture. That is just how my brain is wired. I’ve always thought strategically and holistically and over time I’ve realised that that is a strength.
That’s what can inspire a vision in others, building out the bigger picture. That said, the ability to communicate and listen effectively, is absolutely a growing skill. There are definitely many aspects to leadership that can be learnt, 100%.
LBB> What are the aspects of leadership that you find most personally challenging? And how do you work through them?
Charlie> Juggling time and maintaining consistency are my biggest hurdles. It's crucial to be present and available for your team, which is why I prioritise regular check-ins and structured reviews. These moments are not just about assessment but are opportunities for connection, feedback, and mutual growth. It's about building trust and ensuring everyone feels valued and heard, which in turn strengthens our team's cohesion and productivity.
Nicki> Time management is forever a challenge. Trying not to do everything at once. With big ambitions you always want to be doing more, evolving things and not standing still, optimising the business.
That said, one of the things that Chris (our founder) has taught me over time is how a business is never perfect. There are always moving parts and pieces. I’ve come to look at it like a living, breathing organism that moves in strange ways! Knowing when and how to affect something and when to leave trusted staff to figure things out is part of being a good leader and a skill in itself.
LBB> Have you ever felt like you've failed whilst in charge? How did you address the issue and what did you learn from it?
Charlie> Like anyone stepping into leadership, I've faced my share of challenges and moments of doubt. The key for me has been to confront these moments head-on, with honesty and a willingness to learn. Every setback has been a lesson in disguise, providing valuable insights into how to be a better leader. By embracing failure as part of the growth process, I've learned to adapt, improve, and move forward with greater resilience and understanding.
Nicki> Ooof so many times. If team members leave. If artists leave. If jobs go wrong or feel you mis-handled something. Things will always happen either within your control or not. It’s about being human and grounded and learning constantly. And it’s about taking ownership. We’ve always had a learning culture embedded at Jelly and that’s so important to everyone’s growth and psychological safety. Mistakes are part of being human, it’s about what you learn from them.
LBB> In terms of leadership and openness, what’s your approach there? Do you think it’s important to be as transparent as possible in the service of being authentic? Or is there a value in being careful and considered?
Charlie> Fostering an environment where openness and feedback are valued has been transformative. It's about creating a culture where everyone feels safe to share, suggest, and innovate. This approach has not only helped us grow individually but has also strengthened our team dynamic, making us more united and effective. Being transparent and constructive with feedback encourages a culture of continuous improvement and authenticity, which I believe are key to a successful team.
Nicki> It’s a balance of both. Respecting that transparency is the one - but being careful and considered about how you deliver that information - and being as objective as possible about how it could be received. You can’t always control how information lands. That’s one thing I always try to consider when managing the team at large. Something you strongly believe is a positive indicator might get translated to the opposite.
And as much as you foster an environment of transparency and accessibility to senior management, other people’s experiences can get in the way.
LBB> As you developed your leadership skills did you have a mentor, if so who were/are they and what have you learned? And on the flip side, do you mentor any aspiring leaders and how do you approach that relationship?
Charlie> Although I've never had a traditional mentor, the relationships I've built with peers in different fields have been instrumental in my development. These connections have offered fresh perspectives, shared challenges, and collaborative learning opportunities. It's a reminder that we're all navigating similar waters, and there's immense value in sharing and learning together. This collaborative approach to leadership growth has been enriching, allowing me to both share my experiences and learn from others.
Nicki> Peers and those I respected when coming up through my early days in the industry. There was always an element of respect, frankness and kindness. That’s what I’ve always aspired to. You can say something candid but in a constructive and kind way.
LBB> In continually changing market circumstances, how do you cope with the responsibility of leading a team through difficult waters?
Charlie> In the face of constant market flux, being adaptable, and maintaining open communication with my team have been my guiding principles. It's about rallying the team around a shared vision and being transparent about the challenges and opportunities ahead.
This open dialogue fosters a culture of innovation and trust, empowering everyone to contribute to navigating these changes. Our ability to adapt and stay cohesive in uncertain times has been a testament to the strength of our team culture and leadership approach.
Nicki> I believe this is when you have to trust in the vision. If you truly believe in the strength of the business, are laser focussed, and trust in your team, then the rest you have to navigate as it comes. Now that we are employee owned, our global staff have a greater stake in the shared success of the business. Everyone is an adult and we need to treat them as peers whilst leading the way through. Often it’s ambiguity that fosters anxieties. Authenticity in how you lead is the best way.
If a market-place is tough, it’s about demonstrating amongst the team how we’re being as pro-active as possible as a business in overcoming the challenges, what they can individually affect, and generally communicating as often as possible, as thoroughly as possible.
LBB> As a leader, what are some of the ways in which you’ve prioritised diversity and inclusion within your workforce?
Charlie> We're deeply committed to fostering diversity and inclusion, not just as a policy but as a core part of our ethos. By actively supporting and promoting underserved talents and continuously educating ourselves, we aim to make real, lasting changes. It's about more than just meeting quotas; it's about enriching our team with diverse perspectives and experiences, which in turn drives creativity and innovation.
These efforts require ongoing commitment and open, sometimes difficult, conversations, but the outcome is a more inclusive and dynamic workplace.
Nicki> There’s the talk, then there’s the walk. We’ve been pushing ourselves forward to become a B-corp yet one thing that we’ve always maintained is regardless of whether we achieve certification or not, the behaviour we want to see will be built into the fabric of the business regardless.
There’s so much outward talk about DEI and so much that doesn’t add up behind the scenes with businesses. For example, the amount companies that bang on about their DEI in action yet post job adverts without transparent salary brackets or stipulate that candidates should have degrees. These are tiny actions but that have impact and things we have implemented, because it’s the absolute minimum.
We have focussed our B-corp efforts on pathways into the creative industry for those that are often underserved and cemented this with some long-term educational and non-profit partners so there’s tangible action in progress, however concentrated. This is something our founder Chris is hugely passionate about and deeply committed to.
Aside from our partnerships, we have mandatory training across the team, bias checkers in job adverts, internship and work experience programmes, we’re launching a new initiative called ‘Ask TBM’ in collaboration with our partners to give access to our team so kids at educational choice age can ask anything about a creative business, we take part in careers shows.
I guess what I’m trying to demonstrate is that if we can do it - and we are a production company that’s squeezed in so many ways - there’s absolutely no reason our peers can’t be doing it either.
LBB> How important is your company culture to the success of your business? And how have you managed to keep it alive with increases in remote and hybrid working patterns?
Charlie> Defining our core values was a crucial step in solidifying our company culture, especially as we navigated the shift to remote and hybrid work models. By focusing on a shared mission and fostering a sense of collective responsibility, especially after transitioning into an Employee Ownership Trust, we've managed to maintain and even strengthen our company culture. This collective ethos has been key to keeping our team connected, motivated, and aligned with our values, regardless of where we're working from.
Nicki> The pandemic was a big pivotal moment for us in unpicking and truly understanding our culture. And I know we’re not alone there, the necessity to work remotely overnight and for a prolonged period forced a realisation that our culture wasn’t only about being in a physical space together as a team.
And it drove a period of us really diving into this and unpicking what our culture was. We had one and it was strong - but to define it felt impossible - but that’s what we had to do in order to maintain it virtually. And when we did, it pushed us forward in ways that have made us so much stronger in overall vision, shared values and our team.
When it comes to continuing to keep this alive via remote and hybrid work, I strongly believe that everyone we employ are adults and they understand what’s required of them. If they don’t, either we’ve not done our job well enough as leadership or it’s a performance issue, not a presenteeism issue.
You can’t be serious about being equitable as a business and make mandates. We encourage two days a week in our London HQ and have physical office spaces in NYC and Hamburg, but overall our culture hangs on us trusting our staff to be serious about their work, our joint mission as a business and us all being able to have those not-so-serious moments together whether that’s online or IRL. There are a lot of those too ; )
LBB> What are the most useful resources you’ve found to help you along your leadership journey?
Charlie> Tools like Culture Amp for comprehensive feedback and PIP Decks for interactive workshops have been invaluable in my leadership journey. They've enabled us to engage in meaningful dialogue, fostering a culture where every voice is heard and valued. These tools have facilitated a more inclusive and collaborative environment, helping us to navigate challenges and celebrate successes together. It's through these resources that we've been able to cultivate a strong, supportive, and dynamic team culture.
Nicki> I believe you have to have a growth mindset as a leader, you can’t expect your team to be constantly growing if you aren’t prepared to yourself.
That’s not how it works.
So I’m a sucker for business articles and Linkedin. Sounds dreary I know, a lot is, but often there are gems of insight that can really resonate and help reinforce or challenge a view you hold. It’s soaking in inspo from articles, posts, insight from peers. I’m a magpie for that kind of thing.
On a more personal level, honestly the most useful resources are probably the ones I’ve had to turn to over the years to support myself in order to fulfil my role - talking therapy and hypnotherapy have been pivotal to understanding myself and supporting my wellness. One of the biggest things as a leader is holding a lens up to yourself so you can do the best for the others around you - and you have to look after yourself before you can do that for others.
I would also say doing this together is a huge privilege and we resource each other in many ways. The way that Charlie and I can uplift and support one another whilst undertaking leadership as a team is honestly amazingly inspiring to be a part of.
