The New New Business: Coming Back Stronger with Daniel Sapiano
With over 25 years of experience working in the fields of advertising, film and content, Daniel is a truly versatile executive producer, head of new business and managing director. He has held senior management positions in some of the largest global post production and production companies in four different countries across three continents. Daniel has a vast range of experience in dealing with all sorts of people and challenges both locally and globally. He brings passion and commitment to his work as well as structure, process, growth, consistency, account management, sales, contacts and credentials.
LBB> What was your first sale or new business win? (Was it a big or small job? How difficult or scary was it? What do you remember about how you felt? What lessons did you learn?)
Daniel> The first I can remember was when I was new to running a small post house in Germany and I soon found out that the company was under a lot of pressure to perform better. The pressure at this time was immense as not only were the staff’s jobs at risk but I had just relocated with my wife and six month old daughter so there was a lot at stake. We managed to seal a deal with a local agency which was the springboard to our future and continued success. Naturally I felt very relieved and proud of the fact that against all odds, we managed to secure the deal.
The lesson that I learned and that I still remember today is 'smile and be happy'
Before I would leave every morning with my stomach in knots and wondering how on earth am I going to work this out, my wife wrote 'smile & be happy' on the mirror by the door so that’s the last thing I saw before I left the flat. Sound advice, that, and it is mind over matter, it's about getting yourself focused on positive solutions and not letting the negative consume your thought process.
LBB> What was the best piece of advice you got early on?
Daniel> My Father was good at advice – live within your means, forget yesterday, think about tomorrow, sell sell sell, all the usual cliches that ring true but for me it was to learn the art of LISTENING, understanding the situation from all sides and then making your move. Don’t rush any decision.
I think all those hours playing chess with my father helped.
LBB> And the worst?
Daniel> Advice is generally borne out of someone’s experiences so just because someone gives you advice doesn’t mean to say you have to take it. What works for one person may not work for another or be applicable to your situation so take all advice with gratitude and a pinch of salt.
LBB> How has the business of ‘selling’ in the creative industry changed since you started?
Daniel> It really depends on what you’re selling and to whom?
Going back some years, Cost Controllers were the first major pain in the arse as they were purely about saving the client money without a real thought for creative or relationships that you spent years building. Back then with certain clients it really was a race to the bottom so that sucked and it was kind of soul destroying.
I’ve been through phases from having to decide on a number and agreeing over the phone to doing full treatments and methodologies to win a job, both were enjoyable and I always cherished a fair fight as that made it all the more satisfying when you won. Then these penny pinching morons appeared on the scene and frankly a lot of that went out of the window. From what I can see today, these people have been eradicated and cost consultants, many of whom have an agency or production background came to the fore and that helped a lot in delivering a fair price for a good job.
It’s a different approach if you have an existing relationship but either way, you really need to WIN the job and never assume that you’re going to win – you cannot be lazy because you’ll get found out in the end and once you lose a client to another vendor, it can be very difficult to claw back.
LBB> Can anyone be taught to sell or do new business or do you think it suits a certain kind of personality?
Daniel> You definitely need to be a certain type of personality – someone who enjoys communicating and can suffer rejection. It can be a really lonely and depressing role as much as it can make you feel like you are literally amazing and can walk on water.
Many times I’ve had a younger colleague ask me – how do you sell or how do you engage with a client in a social capacity or at a party.
My answer to this was simple – be yourself and don’t think that they are better than you – the client is just a person. Find a common ground, a hobby, a drink, probe a little in the nicest possible way and it's also very important to remember that if it isn’t working, detach and try again another time. Don’t make it awkward for you or them as that’s just not necessary and you’ll lose your chance.
If you’re nice to them and they are not interested then leave it, if they are rude then you really don’t want to be working with them anyway. We’re all just people trying to do our jobs so be polite and learn to read a situation.
LBB> How can businesses perform well without ‘giving ideas away for free?
Daniel> Pitching and bidding takes a long time and a lot of effort so I certainly feel that the client should offer a pitch fee. Obviously this is client and project related but when you know there is a pitch fee it can make you approach the project differently because you know that the client cares and is willing to pay for your initial ideas. It’s important to safeguard your ideas so that they can’t pay you and then use your creativity with another vendor but it does mean that you can maybe cover the cost of what you put into the pitch so that you are not at a financial loss if you lose. This is very important for smaller businesses in particular as you can find yourself pitching on a few projects and if you lose them all you take a big hit.
The pitch fee should depend on what is required to stand a fair chance of winning.
If we’re honest, there is usually a favourite, a second favourite and a wild card so any company needs to realise this before they agree to pitch. Find out where you stand in the pitch hierarchy and make a decision as to how much you want to invest into the pitch.
Any company that refuses to pitch will probably find themselves out of business in time as there are many, hungrier and maybe just as talented companies that are willing to pitch. I totally understand certain directors not wanting to pitch and more power to them if they have worked that hard to get to that position – I very much doubt they didn’t start their careers not wanting to pitch on anything!
LBB> How do you go about tailoring your selling approach according to the kind of person or business you’re approaching?
Daniel> Different clients want different approaches from high creative to the lowest bid.
Research and hit them with something interesting, relevant, forward thinking and creative – show them something they haven’t seen before and charge a fair price for it.
Make sure that your initial budget has room for manoeuvre because usually, the budget will only decrease – give yourself some wiggle room.
Don’t just come in cheaper, you may well win but it’s no way to run a business and in the long run it damages a very fragile ecosystem of companies & friends working within the same sector. Also, do you want to be working with companies who are purely based on bullying their vendors….?
LBB> New business and sales can often mean hearing ‘no’ a lot and quite a bit of rejection - how do you keep motivated?
Daniel> Don’t take it personally, it’s just a job. Don’t take your work home with you. Don’t resort to drowning your sorrows.
Do learn why you were rejected and note it down. Every challenge or disappointment is an opportunity to learn something about your client, your company and just as importantly, about yourself.
Deep breath, come back stronger and on to the next one.
Don’t take yourself too seriously, don’t beat yourself up when you lose and don’t think you’re the mutts nuts when you win – be humble.
LBB> The advertising and marketing industry often blurs the line between personal and professional friendships and relationships… Does this make selling easier or more difficult and delicate?
Daniel> If you have an honest and open relationship and communicate well then whether you win or lose a project shouldn’t make any difference. It's great working with your (work) friends because it can be fun and you’re in it together. I think we all have to remember that it's just a job and it’s just a commercial so there’s no need for things to get nasty when challenges present themselves. The art of running any project is good communication both internally & externally so if you have that then it shouldn’t matter whether your client is a friend or not. As long as we treat people with respect everything can be resolved.
On another note, it really is nice to be able to entertain your mates at swanky events or restaurants – it’s a real perk of the job.
LBB> In your view, what's the key to closing a deal?
Daniel> Have you listened and understood the brief? Is your creative idea on point? Are you impressed by what you're providing to the client? Are you offering good value?
LBB> How important is cultural understanding when it comes to selling internationally? (And if you have particular experience on this front, what advice do you have?)
Daniel> I have been fortunate enough to have lived and worked in the UK, Germany, India and the US, all of which are different culturally. You have to adapt your way of thinking to accommodate any cultural nuances. You have to consider the budget constraints of a particular country – for example, generally the US has bigger budgets and India has smaller budgets so cut your cloth accordingly.
You must appreciate and factor in the time difference for any region.
Payment terms need to be factored into any contract. Actually getting paid is another matter altogether.
If it’s a big project, it's sometimes nice to make the effort to go and visit the client assuming you plant some trees to make up for your carbon footprint …..
LBB> How is technology and new platforms (from platforms like Salesforce and Hubspot to video calls to social media) changing sales and new business?
Daniel> CRM’s such as Salesforce & Zoho are great if you are that way inclined and you are regimented about information input.
There is a balance here but Video calls can make people lazy. I used to love getting dressed up in a sharp suit, travelling in a taxi and revising the pitch enroute, walking into the room and making an impression – all you can do on a call is fluff your hair and change your background – I’m not a fan but I do appreciate the necessity.
Human interaction is a major part of selling anything, maybe I’m old fashioned but I know for a fact that I have been part of a winning team not only because we had the best pitch but because we made the best impression with the clients and that’s where relationships are born
LBB> There’s a lot of training for a lot of parts of the industry, but what’s your thoughts about the training and skills development when it comes to selling and new business?
Daniel> I started as a runner learning the most valuable skills of interaction and communication. I then went on to become a producer and exec producer so all of the necessary skills were learnt from these jobs – you also have to want to sell and be great with people. It helps if you love the company or product you're selling and you're proud to be a part of that. You have to really believe in what you’re selling.
The same applies with selling anything – know what you’re talking about, be confident in how you present your pitch & yourself, surround yourself with experts and be humble – you won’t go wrong.
LBB> What’s your advice for anyone who’s not necessarily come up as a salesperson who’s now expected to sell or win new business as part of their role?
Daniel> Don’t do it – do a job that you enjoy.
If you have no choice, pick out parts of my answers and try to work them into your day.
Ask advice, ask for assistance, the company's survival doesn’t depend solely on you, so relax, know what you’re selling, get your team on your side and work together for the benefit of everyone.
Enjoy the successes and don’t beat yourself up when you lose because you will lose.
Try to make contact with other new biz people so that you can share insights and stories – it's nice to look across the room and to see someone who has the same role as you in action, just make sure you’re better than them!
Leave the job at work, your friends and family don’t deserve to be on the end of a monologue about sales and how hard it is.
As with any role – make the most out of the parts of that role that you enjoy and just suffer the rest.
Seriously, I’d give anyone the time of day if they want to discuss further, it’s all common sense really.
