Bossing It: The Willingness to Pursue a Dream with Thibaut Estellon

As founder/EP of REVERSE, Thibaut Estellon brings 20 years of experience in arts and entertainment, a deep love for creative challenges, and an equally deep aversion to the status quo. Under his leadership, REVERSE has become a true creative hub for multi-skilled directors who are adept at visual storytelling across all disciplines.

Prior to founding REVERSE, Thibaut worked in a variety of creative management positions in the music, art, and fashion industries. His diverse background, combined with his MBA education and experience in project management, inform both his creative supervision and managerial approach. Thibaut has handled sales and advertising for record labels, curated and promoted concerts, and developed events that brought together music, art, movies, and performances. It’s all experience that has laid the foundation for Thibaut’s eye for talent and his ability to connect and inspire artists and clients around a shared vision.

He currently lives in Brooklyn with his wife and three young children.

LBB> What was your first experience of leadership?

Thibaut> When I was in business school, a bunch of friends and I launched a not-for-profit music festival where folks had to bring food instead of paying for tickets. That was a genius idea on paper, but lots of headaches were ahead of us. People must have thought we were naïve or plain idiots. We were so convinced this would work! Although none of us had ever done anything remotely close to this, ignorance pays off sometimes. I led the effort, made a ton of mistakes, and learned so much along the way. I worked 24/7, sneaking backstage at concerts and music festivals to pitch bands and get them on board with the concept. I met with local political figures and businesses to secure funding. Between meeting with local municipal officials and businesses to secure funding, canvassing the city with flyers, and creating spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations for weekly meetings, I barely passed my grades back then; but this was the best lesson and experience in project leadership and management that I could have ever received. It also taught me to follow my instincts and not to overanalyse or listen to the naysayers.

LBB> How did you figure out what kind of leader you wanted to be – or what kind of leader you didn’t want to be?

Thibaut> That's an ongoing question and something I regularly ask myself. Our company went through a few iterations. We started super small, then expanded to a large New York studio with a satellite office in Los Angeles. We had a large staff, offering a full range of creative, production, post-production, and equipment rental services, all under one roof. We then decided to scale back and focus on what we do best: talent development and complex commercial productions, relying on a network of highly skilled artists and production partners, both in the US and abroad. This 180 required a sharp focus and vision. It's not easy to reorient a company's DNA and develop a business model that diverges from the older shops’ habits and trends. As a leader, you're the one bringing the vision to the company, steering the business, and inspiring and helping people give the best of themselves. It's paramount to keep the company's goals and future in mind. Some decisions may not be easy, but that's what a leader has to do.

I have experienced the gamut of bosses – good and bad – but learned a ton from each one of them. Some didn't have much formal education and were genius autodidacts with their share of flaws, while others were highly educated but very stifling in their approach. So, it's all subjective. Leaders are only as good as their teams, but it's their responsibility to create an environment that brings out the best in people and rallies them around a common goal. Each leader needs to develop their own leadership style, building on their strengths, managing their weaknesses, and creating teams and environments that complement their abilities. 

LBB> What experience or moment gave you your biggest lesson in leadership?

Thibaut> I can't point out one in particular; it's an ongoing learning experience. I'm constantly brainstorming ways to enhance and develop our roster and company. I look for patterns, a series of events, and inspiration from other businesses both within and outside our industry, and then form a learning experience from which I can build upon and take action. Leadership requires creativity, knowledge, and strategy. As a leader, you don’t want to overreact to non-emergency situations, but you also don't want to be paralysed in your decision-making. With time and experience, you learn to focus on the long run and what truly matters, without overreacting too quickly.

LBB> Did you know you always wanted to take on a leadership role? If so how did you work towards it and if not, when did you start realising that you had it in you?

Thibaut> Not at all. I know what I want to do and tend to ignore the naysayers; that’s my stubborn side. Push and see what happens, figure it out as you go. It kind of happened organically and randomly, honestly. I've always liked to be in charge, but being a leader is so much more. It’s about getting the people around you excited about a vision and an overall goal and then bringing different personalities together to work as a team. I love being surrounded by creative people and am very at ease in helping artists and creatives nail the business side of things. Because of this, running a commercial production company ended up being a pretty great fit. 

For a while, I suffered from imposter syndrome. I was young and building a production company but never trained to run one. It was a lot of improvising and hard work to get to where we’re at today. The more I hired and collaborated with EPs, the more I realised I was actually pretty good at it myself. Now, besides creative talents, I’m looking more for partners to complement my skills and other leaders in their fields, whether they’re line producers, bidders, accountants, production partners, designers, lawyers, marketing folks, or just inspiring people to learn from.

LBB> When it comes to 'leadership' as a skill, how much do you think is a natural part of personality, how much can be taught and learned?

Thibaut> I’m not sure there’s a trait. It can certainly be learned. In our creative industry, I feel that a lot of folks end up in leadership positions, just following an idea and growing it until people join your dreams. It all starts with a passion and a willingness to pursue a dream.

LBB> What are the aspects of leadership that you find most personally challenging? And how do you work through them?

Thibaut> There’s a certain pressure when it comes to leadership; you can’t just quit on yourself, especially when you’re running the show, and you’re held accountable for your decisions. I have a strong work ethic and sometimes have a hard time hitting the brakes. I can put too much on myself, which can end up being detrimental to our company. No one is perfect, but a good leader will strive to be better, and self-evaluation is a big part of that.

LBB> Have you ever felt like you've failed whilst in charge? How did you address the issue and what did you learn from it?

Thibaut> Yeah, so many times! For me, it’s truly been how I’ve learned and grown as a leader. I have thick skin and take criticism well, but I do get angry at myself for failing and making mistakes. I don’t handle stress super well, which sounds crazy in our industry, and that’s also why I would be a terrible line producer. But I overcome this by strategising, planning, and surrounding myself with killer talent and solid production people, which helps me stay focused on the long-term vision.

LBB> In terms of leadership and openness, what’s your approach there? Do you think it’s important to be transparent as possible in the service of being authentic? Or is there a value in being careful and considered?

Thibaut> I tend to be very transparent and straightforward; sometimes too much. I used to expect a lot from my teams, didn’t share praises and encouragement easily, and focused on what needed to improve instead of acknowledging what was good. A lot of that stemmed from having a strong work ethic and expecting a lot from myself, and those traits fed into my leadership style – often in unhealthy ways. What I've learned from these past mistakes is that, as a leader, you must walk a fine line between motivating your team and burning them out. But they need to adhere to the vision first. And when it comes to transparency, I think it’s about finding the balance between oversharing and not sharing enough. I'm still fine-tuning this, and sometimes I may fail, but people always know it's coming from a good place, which brings me goodwill.

LBB> As you developed your leadership skills did you have a mentor, if so who were/are they and what have you learned? And on the flip side, do you mentor any aspiring leaders and how do you approach that relationship?

Thiabaut> You know, I wish I had a mentor; it would have probably helped me avoid a few mistakes along the way! Since I'm an autodidact in this industry, my primary learning experiences have been hands-on, learning as I go. I never formally trained under anyone, so I always absorbed as much as I could by just listening and watching others – directors, producers, agency folks, reps, PAs, anyone really. The same goes for leadership and mentorship. You must be in a constant state of learning. I think that’s something I’ve always done right.

LBB> It's been a really challenging few years - and that's an understatement. How do you lead a team out the other side of a difficult period?

Thibaut> This year has been pretty weird, indeed! We’ve seen a lot of bid pools with A-list directors and companies jumping on smaller projects that we, as a company, would be nervous to approach. I think that’s telling about the state of the business now. For us, it’s been a lot of reassuring our directors and working extremely hard to open opportunities and close jobs.

LBB> What are some ambitions and plans you have for the company and yourself in the coming year?

Thibaut> > Our plan is fairly simple: keep building on the success of our roster, develop our talent, improve our production processes to put as much money on screen as possible, and keep improving our network of sales and production partners. 

Conversations are starting to pop up in the narrative and content space, which is exciting. But for now, we want to remain focused on continued growth in the commercial and branded content space.

It’s been an unpredictable year, but we’re really excited about what’s to come. I think our company and the roster we have in place answer an industry need for creative and efficient production solutions. After starting micro-small a few years ago, we’re now in the mix with all the A-list shops. I think that tells us we’re doing something right.

LBB> How important is your company culture to the success of your business?

Thibaut> Because of our business processes, structure, and organisation, we are able to contain overhead while boosting productivity and sales. It was a boon for us during COVID and this year, which was slower for a lot of folks. Agencies know they can trust us. They know I’m a no-BS EP who delivers – and they know our directors share the same philosophy. We’re as excited as day one and know 2024 will be our year.

LBB> What are the most useful resources you’ve found to help you along your leadership journey?

Thibaut> People. People. People. Everything else just glitters.